AO3

[tinpra]

Is anyone else on the flist using An Archive of Our Own or AO3 for short? Even if you aren't, does anyone have thoughts on the site? Anyone participating or following yuletide will know that the seasonal challenge has moved its archive over to the AO3 site.

If you don't know how I feel about it. I remember when the site started making self-announcements via various comms, and I wasn't sure what I thought about it then. If for no other reason than having to remember to post a fic in one more place is a pain in the petard, I was reluctant to join. However AO3 is affiliated with, or is the working arm of, the Organization for Transformative Works, or the OTW. My issue with the OTW lies partly with their premise of fanwork being a transformative work, transformative works being important and legit, and thus fanwork is imp and legit.

I have no problem with saying fanwork is transformative: it can be. I have no problem with saying fanwork is important: it can be. I am saying, however, that we are by and large treading on someone's intellectual property (as all you flist-y people know I'm a fanfic writer/reader, and I used to make very poor graphics), which makes what we do illegal to a certain extant. Hence all those lovely cease-and-desist letters that authors, corporations, etc., can send to sites and writers. So with that in mind, that fans producing fanwork are treading on thin mushy legal ground, I am wary of jumping on either the AO3 or OTW bandwagons, though I completely understand where they're coming from. God knows I have sometimes labored (perhaps much too hard) on some of my fanworks, and that I have read some stories that have deeply effected and affected me. My fanfic is important to me, but I realize the tenuous legitimacy it has.

And it this point it would have been nice for the OTW to clearly define "transformative" in it's legal terms, which are the ones it is using, vs. it's popular one. According to Wikipedia (that bastion of all knowledge): In United States copyright law, transformation is a possible justification that use of a copyrighted work may qualify as fair use, i.e., that a certain use of a work does not infringe its holder's copyright due to the public interest in the usage. Transformation is an important issue in deciding whether a use meets the first factor of the fair-use test, and is generally critical for determining whether a use is in fact fair, although no one factor is dispositive.

There are certainly court decisions, legal happenings and university studies regarding fannish work, but I still don't know what that means for the guys and gals on the internet street. Not in the long run at least. Some people, and by ppl I mean TV folks and writers and corporate folks, etc, don't seem to much care what we do. Or they encourage it b/c it helps ratings. I dunno. Other ppl care desperately--both for and against.

So...after all of that ( :s ) what do you guys think of AO3? Just another fansite? The greatest thing to happen to fan-writers ever? Something that's going to come back to bite us on the collective fannish butt some time in the future? Will AO3 even be able to sustain itself? Look at all the concessions and changes FF.net has had to make in its tenure that had less to do with fan and system-server needs, and more to do with legal pressures, etc.

(On that same note, since I am a member of AO3 (all '09 and future yuletide writers are) I have AO3 invitations if anyone wants one.)

Comments

[shaxberd.livejournal.com]

The problem is that the law as it currently stands requires the owner of a certain media character or franchise to defend that ownership in order to retain it. For example, if Warner Bros started creating their own Mickey Mouse cartoons and Disney both knew about it and didn't take legal action to make them stop, Warner Bros could theoretically gain ownership of the Micky Mouse character. Bizarrely enough, the same thing theoretically applies to fanfiction if it can be proved that they know you're writing it but don't take any legal action to make you stop. There is a way around this problem, though. Just include a disclaimer stating that you don't own the characters that you're writing about. Here's one that I used for some DC Comics fanfiction I wrote way back when. Just change the entities involved to suit what you're writing, but you can see what the important points are:

THE DCFutures Underground Fan Fiction group acknowledges that DC Comics owns the concepts behind Green Lantern and all DC characters that may be used here. These concepts are used WITHOUT permission for NO PROFIT, but rather a strong desire to peer into the future of the DC Universe. However, the original concepts presented here are the intellectual property of the author.

[tinpra.livejournal.com]

It's already standard practice to add a disclaimer to fic. I literally have a file on my computer that called "general disclaimer." Some people's disclaimers are painfully specific, much like yours, some of them are fairly general and generic (along the lines of "None of the characters are mine, only the plot. No profit is being made. Please don't sue."). I've used both kinds. Some ppl put their disclaimers on every fic (I do) other people pt their disclaimers on their homepage or as a sticky post. I can't think of many, or any, fanfic writers who don't stick a disclaimer somewhere.

Disclaimers haven't stopped folks, mostly authors as far as I can tell, from sending fandom cease-and-desist letters. :-\

[klcthebookworm.livejournal.com]

As far as my experience has been: Biker Mice From Mars powers that be were shocked that they still had American fans ten years after the show went off the air. European fans didn't shock them (the show stayed in syndication in those markets). They never stomped their feet and demanded we stopped doing fanworks, and even asked questions about what we'd expect from the characters before the relaunched series.

I don't write fanfiction from books. I just think that's rude when most working writers barely earn enough to do the writing they want to do full-time. I don't think it erodes readership as much as upsets the writers. I know I'd have a hard time with someone writing slash about my O.C.s.

I'm not familiar with this site, and only familiar enough with copyright law to use an extreme disclaimer for all my stuff. But this is why I pay for website space and consider that my one and only home for my fanfiction. Sure I may post at FF.net, but they are under no obligation to protect my work if they get in trouble. And if a rights owner goes to all the trouble of hunting me down (rather than just doing a blanket attack like the music industry likes to do), I'm more entitled to take it seriously. And I have the opportunity to save what I wrote first before taking it down.

What I do remember about "transformative" is it is a lot easier to prove visually. Unless there have been some recent cases, I don't remember anyone suggesting that for fanfiction.

[shaxberd.livejournal.com]

The disclaimers should be all that the companies care about, such that they will leave you alone. If an author is objecting, then it's probably because they are offended somehow by the fanfiction in question, by the things that take place in it or by the way the characters are being portrayed. For a lot of authors, the characters that they create are like their children, and I could see how fanfiction might be upsetting if it has their beloved characters doing things that are out of character. It's not a problem that you normally run into in comic book fanfiction as most comic authors are writing characters that were created by other people decades ago, but even so, I would gladly honor the request to stop.

[tinpra.livejournal.com]

I know the MPAA has gotten on FF.net's case (and I guess other large fan-sites) about using the classic movie rating system, which is why FF.net and others have changed from G - NC-17 to K - M rating system.

I honestly don't remember if fandom has been hit by c-&-d's from folks other than authors. Although, looking at the publishing guidelines on FF.net, we are apparently banned from posting fic related to Archie comics.

Fanfiction, old as it is, is still a relatively new and elusive beast for the generic Powers That Be. I mean Trek-fic has been around since way before internet stuff was available to the masses. AO3 and OTW could be the wave of the fannish future or another interesting sidenote on the journey. I mean even with big fandoms like LOTR and Harry Potter and Trek, and big sites like FF.net and Sugar Quill, fanfiction is still underground. It's still not super mainstream. Even among the fannish you could be seen as seriously geeky for writing fanfic.

[tinpra.livejournal.com]

Well they are apparently going to try proving it in fic if it comes to that. According to the link on fanlore, there is one case that's gone across a judge's desk that was fanfic-ish, but it was a for-profit thing so I'm not sure it counts.

I know I'd have a hard time with someone writing slash about my O.C.s.
One of the authors I follow says that she purposely avoids knowledge regarding fanfic for her work. Luckily, or not depending on what end of fandom you're on, there isn't much out there.

And I've always wondered how actors feel about their characters, esp ones they identify with, being manipulated and made to do/feel/etc things that are wildly out of character. There's a semi-famous picture of the guys who play the Weasley twins holding up a sign that says something like "Twincest is wrong" and looking rather horrified/confused. From what I understand they hadn't known about fandom's penchant for shipping the twins with each other and had it explained to them by the fan who took the picture and gave htem the sign.

[klcthebookworm.livejournal.com]

I think I'm horrified on their behalf as well. *Shakes head*

A lot of authors and some TV writers avoid fanfiction because they don't want the fan coming up with a "you stole my idea" lawsuit.

[franzeska]

*wanders by from blogsearching*

The OTW's view on what "transformative" means is in the main site glossary. If you click on the word 'transformative' on any of the transformativeworks.org pages (as opposed to the AO3), you get taken here: http://transformativeworks.org/glossary/13#term441

[tinpra.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the info. Although having read it it doesn't particularly help in my decision. :-\ Perhaps I've worked for patent lawyers too long.